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Just trivia Started by postman	Posted: January 1, 2010 at 21:32

I guess I am easily amused. I found one of the most searched topics about MRSA. In any search engine enter this question. Then I substituted infected with for carrying. How long is the person carrying MRSA contagious? 15971

Re: Just trivia Reply #1 by ladyk	Posted: January 2, 2010 at 18:53

postman - I would not consider this trivia. You may find the following study of interest... Risk of Infection and Death due to Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus aureus in Long-Term Carriers Rupak Datta and Susan S. Huang Department of Ambulatory Care and Prevention, Harvard Medical School and Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, and Channing Laboratory, Brigham and Women’s Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts; Division of Epidemiology of Microbial Diseases, Yale School of Public Health, New Haven, Connecticut; and Division of Infectious Diseases, University of California Irvine School of Medicine, Irvine. Background. Patients with newly acquired methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) have significant risks of short-term morbidity and mortality due to this pathogen. We were interested in assessing whether long term carriers have persistent risks of disease and whether all carriers, regardless of the duration of carriage, should be considered to be reasonable candidates for interventions to reduce the risk of infection. Methods. We conducted a single-center retrospective cohort study to evaluate the risk of subsequent MRSA infection and death among patients known to have harbored MRSA for at least 1 year (i.e., prevalent carriers). Results. Among 281 prevalent carriers, 65 (23%) developed a total of 96 discrete and unrelated MRSA infections in the year after their identification as prevalent carriers. The most common infections were pneumonia (accounting for 39% of MRSA infections), soft-tissue infection (14%), and central venous catheter infection (14%). Twenty four percent of all infections involved bacteremia. Thirty-eight MRSA infections occurred during a new hospitalization, and 32 (84%) of these infections were the reason for admission to the hospital. MRSA contributed to 14 deaths, with 6 of these deaths deemed to be attributable to MRSA. Harboring MRSA for <2 years and MRSA colonization at the time of detection as a prevalent carrier were predictive of subsequent infection with MRSA. Conclusions. Individuals who are known to have harbored MRSA for >1 year are at high risk for subsequent MRSA morbidity and mortality and should be considered to be targets for intervention, in addition to individuals who have newly acquired this pathogen. Hence the reason I'm a strong believer in appropriate carrier decolonization. Not only are carriers at risk themselves due to active reservoir of this pathogenic bacteria, they pose public health risk to all with impressive ability to cross contaminate. ladyk 15981

Re: Just trivia Reply #2 by postman	Posted: January 2, 2010 at 21:01

ladyK, Okay, you are not as scarrier as MRSA, but damn close. Is there a cite or do I just snag it from here by omission, LOL. When was that dated? 15982

Re: Just trivia Reply #3 by ladyk	Posted: January 2, 2010 at 23:28

Received: 10 December 2007 Accepted: 6 March 2008 Clinical Infectious Diseases. Volume 47, Issue 2, Page 176–181, Jul 2008 Dr. Susan S. Huang, University of California Irvine, Medical Center, Div. of Infectious Diseases, Bldg. 53, Ste. 215, 101 The City Dr., Orange, CA 92868 15983

Re: Just trivia Reply #4 by Lois	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 03:51

This is very scary. "What does it mean to me?", I'm thinking. My MRSA was supposedly killed. Last date of IV April 7, 2009. I have never had a nares test. I am pursuing an appointment with my ID to get it. His secretary insisted he call me rather than I see him at his office. When he called I wasn't available. I would rather see him in person. Why do people try to make my life harder? My internist thinks I'm confused about my fear of having MRSA in my nares. My gastroenterologist (did my colonoscopy a few years ago) thinks I'm sane and she recommends the nares test and hibiclens until the nares clears as she thinks I'm positive. If only she were my internist. This is where I get weepy and feel I have no control over this thing called MRSA. I know I do have some control and will continue to pursue this and continue trying to improve my immune system. I am so...thankful for this forum, ladyk, Nancy and even postman who, sorry, but tries my patience. !Smile! 15984

Re: Just trivia Reply #5 by postman	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 03:51

The disurbing fact is this anounces a pandemic, in hospitals. 15985

Re: Just trivia Reply #6 by Lois	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 04:05

Help me understand your thinking postman. Is it because the percentage of MRSA infections are so high in hospitals and so many medical professionals are carriers? Lois 15986

Re: Just trivia Reply #7 by postman	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 04:24

Unless ladyK corrects me, it tells me I am at a 30% higher risk of contracting MRSA again, and my odds of survival is less than 50%. Add to it suggesting we be quarantined, the ultimate solution incineration. And I am being optimistic... the odds are dramatically reduced if hospitalization is involved. 15987

Re: Just trivia Reply #8 by Mom in Calif	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 05:22

I found an article which fills out the study summary a bit more, from UC Irvine where Dr. Huang works: http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/18179 Postman, yes - this is scary, but ladyk, Nancy and others at this forum are living proof that it is possible to rebuild the immune system, and I choose to believe that if this is diligently pursued, the negative outcome cited in the study is simply not likely. (And - this will please you - I think it can be done without resort to the-patented-proprietary-supplement-which-shall-remain-nameless, your pet peeve, although I am sure that does work, too.) Happy New Year to everyone here, may this year be one of increasing good health, happiness and peace of mind. 15988

Re: Just trivia Reply #9 by ladyk	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 05:57

postman - Stop. I thought you were seeking information, not hysteria. Perhaps I was mistaken that you would understand this study and think it through in a reasonable fashion rather than over react to the point of comments like "ultimate solution incineration"... (for God sake!), as frightening others is of NO value. If you are interested in fact finding studies - fine, but I will not feed into provocation of hysteria! First of all everyone take a breath. It is important that we as MRSA positives know what we are up against. Considering facts IS what saves lives. What this study reflects is the very serious ramifications of “long term positive carrier status”. We are all familiar by now with the serious risks of cross contamination, as well we understand the importance of cultures. Additionally, we are familiar with decolonization protocol. If one decolonizes… they can not be considered “prevalent” nor “long term carriers” as the study subjects reflect. Equally important is the fact that MRSA is transient and if we consider this… one who is asymptomatic carrier with optimal immune system function is perfectly capable of decolonizing bacteria. And as studies reflect… it is equally plausible to go back out into the public arena and become colonized again. The “interventions” spoken of in this study are – pre-screening/surveillance pre-op, appropriate decolonization, and follow up cultures (as we see in many work places that require MRSA positives to obtain three consecutive negative cultures before one is able to return to work). These are all interventions we have control over. Additionally, there is an absolute need to remain vigilant/proactive in our care both topically as well as internally supporting our immune system. ladyk 15989

Re: Just trivia Reply #10 by postman	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 07:48

ladyK, I am not baiting for an argument. Yes, my conclusions tend to be morose. You most certainly and correctly have mentioned there is no innoculation for MRSA. Consequently your cite indirectly focuses on that fact. It expounds even. I recall a very uncomfortable conversation for my ID Dr. "So I can assume, due to the prolonged administration of Avelox alternating with Levaquin, then Bactrim and being hospitalized and given a Cephelaxin IV when I had no infection, I have been subjected to the chemical equivalent of AIDS. The response was, "Yes". This was a year before I was positive for MRSA (when I was given antibiotics for an infection that did not exist). So when I validate your position about the hap-hazard use of antibiotics, you indicte me for inciting panic as if I were yelling FIRE in a movie theater. Perhaps if I develope a presentation. Excuse me dear ladyK, there is smoke. Excuse me dear ladyK there are flames. Excuse me dear ladyK there is seering heat. I simply cannot resolve the dicotomy of your incongruous boundaries. SO, I will simply leave it at this, F I R E ! ! ! 15990

Re: Just trivia Reply #11 by postman	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 08:17

As far as the supplements. When someone can establish a clear link to recovery based in science, I will endorse it. Until that experience I will remain percivale. But until then my opinion of garlic is it kills a first kiss, and wards off vampires. As far as the rest, they are proven turn your pee brown and empty your wallet. 15991

Re: Just trivia Reply #12 by postman	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 11:07

I have an annoying propensity to disect my own argument first, weighing its weaknesses against the opposing. I have reviewed this at least a half dozen times. I came to a conclusion, where I alledgedly spread panic ladyK consistantly reaches for the silver lining. This thread was simply my (own) discovery of the curiousity about MRSA. Had this subject been, "Pimple discovered on Tiger Woods' wife's ass!" I would be a candle in a national media hurricane. I doubt even ladyK will understand this post. I have two points to add. One, what I consider the most applicable assumption of the study. Decolonization has had variable success [4]. Its benefit may depend on whether subsequent MRSA infections are caused by the original infecting or colonizing strain, indicating persistent carriage or repeated acquisition from the local environment. Under these scenarios, a single successful decolonization of patients and potentially their immediate surroundings could prevent future infection. However, if subsequent infections are caused by different strains, decolonization would be of limited value unless sustained over long periods.---Which in postman's low brow knuckle dragging interpertation says, "If you got it in a hospital you are !" "if you were infected by transmission you odds of decolonization and no futher reoccuring infection fare much better. Second was, only 2 patients were affected by a "HOST MUTANT" strain which could only be attributed to host cross contamination. Conclusion once infected you are a harbour. 15992

Re: Just trivia Reply #13 by Nancy R	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 15:11

Postman: What LadyK does and always has done is simply present the evidence, with documentation, for review of the reader. She brings that to the table. Each and every case is individual. No two histories are the same. Consequently, even though many are similar, genetics and environment will always affect the outcome of any test or therapy. I was blessed with good genes and common sense. I also understand medical jargon. When I don't, I go to professionals for interpretation. Ultimately, I have to decide what is best for me and for my family. I have made some poor choices and have learned. I also always keep in mind that EVERYONE, even doctors and technicians, have bad days at work. Things can go wrong; patients can suffer. It is up to EACH of us to educate ourselves and continue to do research. It doesn't end when you have your last infection. We try to give the body what it needs to fend off MANY infections. Each battle with MRSA kills off many of your body's "soldiers". It takes a while to refortify. And, add age to the mix. One would likely survive most any infection at the age of 16, in the prime of life. However, not so at 70. Our "troops" are older. Let's not be alarmists. There is enough panic in the streets. Instead, we need to continue to explore what worked, what failed to work, and what seems to help in the day to day struggle. Frankly, I really no longer fear MRSA. I fear other problems that effect folks my age (60) that may further compromise my immune system. So, I simply try to improve my immune system so it can combat whatever comes my way. After all, that's its job! Since I personally have seen how well oil of oregano works, I can fully understand the logic behind garlic. I never used a garlic supplement (I do use a lot of garlic in everyday cooking and always have) but most medicine today is based on formulary and substitutes for natural herbs. It's hardly a stretch for me to sometimes substitute what Nature provides. I am not endorsing anything that hasn't worked for me, but neither am I discounting other people's recommendations. I have a brain. I have the ability to choose. JMHO 15995

Re: Just trivia Reply #14 by Mom in Calif	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 18:52

Postman, the kind of scientific studies you want to see are available if you trust research from other countries - England, Germany, Japan. Here in the States, you know as well as I do that we are under the thumb of Big Pharma and the medical industrial complex. No company will fund a study will undercut its own products (antibiotics) by saying that readily available alternatives work just as well. Every living thing is susceptible to illness and disease, and every living thing has evolved means to combat illness and disease. Oil of oregano, concentrated garlic and other natural plant extracts are the defenses plants use. Yes, they work! The forces of supply and demand establish the prices of supplements - too bad some are so darn expensive. Metals are toxic to pathogens - they also work but have to be used with care. Some are vital (iron) others are simply toxic (cadmium). We use silver ointment and it is fail-safe. The other half of the equation is symbiosis, the 'good' bacteria and microorganisms that live within. After I read the excellent book "Good Germs, Bad Germs", I decided to put a huge effort into finding a probiotic that would work for us. There are a few which mention MRSA in their literature. In researching the one I finally chose, I read over six hundred product reviews. Not ALL of them were positive, but enough were that I thought it was a good idea to try. My immune system has gone back to behaving the way it used to: a scratch or even a little cat bite does not turn into a MRSA inflammation any more. I can wash an injury, put on some ointment and a bandage and it heals, period. Our son is taking a little longer to get better, when he cut back from an intense initial dose to maintenance level (and then forgot to take it altogether) he saw the reemergence of MRSA in the form of single small pimples here and there. He's back on more probiotics and I am working on him to cut back on sugar. 15996

Re: Just trivia Reply #15 by ladyk	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 19:27

postman - Stop acting out. I’m in too good of a mood in this brand new year, otherwise you’d be bumped by now (again). You are right about one thing – I am and always will remain hopeful, since most of us here are living and breathing against formidable odds. Myself included. Here’s something for you to seriously consider… how you choose to carry on in the life you have is certainly your decision, but you should know you demonstrate attributes of a bitter (perhaps scared) old goat. If you are seeking help for your MRSA related afflictions then put down your case in ‘pertinent’ chronological order, I am far too busy to deal with moot nonsensical dribble. There are very few who frequent this forum who do not understand my well expressed boundaries. (Far from the mark of incongruous.) You have been on that side of the line and are fully aware there are limitations. You have a propensity to negatively tweak for your own overly dramatized amusement, BUT you should know you do this at the expense of those who are newly afflicted, frightened, and striving to grasp what all this means to them particularly. And that is quite unfair. Science deals in facts, not emotions. My concerns are for those struggling through and as you yourself have seen – the bar is quite high as to how far I will go to protect this fragile place they’ve found themselves in. So if you wish to remain on this forum with productive input, I strongly suggest you curb your dooms day propensity. In language you will understand… silver lining… you bet your ass – BTW if Tiger’s wife had a pimple on her’s… I’d suggest she get that cultured directly! I also suggest you reasonably open your mind. Every day is a new day. And with every day there is renewed hope for all of us… even you~ Science and medicine strive with silver lining hopes in mind for the betterment of humanity, (always has) and so do I… the reflection of this can be seen all over this forum from those who have been truly helped managing their affliction with MRSA. You don’t simply give up – you find a way around a most difficult situation and work with what you have. My glass remains ½ full! ladyk PS I’m serious about your case history, but question your honesty at taking a good long and hard look at yourself and what you are doing proactively to help and not hurt yourself by negative choices. A good start would be to squelch your overall negativity (obvious by all impressions), and place it in the background for your health’s sake. 15997

Re: Just trivia Reply #16 by postman	Posted: January 3, 2010 at 20:33

potato-tamater, sand in ears is a symptom. click heels together 3 times, POOF 15998

Re: Just trivia Reply #17 by Nancy R	Posted: January 4, 2010 at 04:18

LadyK et al: If you really want to get better, you have to believe in the possibility. I think that is what Postman lacks: he cannot imagine himself well. He has forgotten how that feels. He can't find his way back. You and I bear the battle scars of our skirmishes with this super bug. It has left a lasting impression on our bodies and our souls. We have held each others hands in the darkest hours and someone emerged from the depth of despair. That is all we want to do now: help someone else find their way back. Each individual will have to customize their own therapy to meet their own needs. I know that you and I sure have. I was cleaning out the medicine cabinet and stumbled across some of the ointments and supplements that I once depended on. It's time to throw them out now. A new year has begun. I even removed my crutches and cane today. I had them behind a door in the bedroom. My electric mobility chair is about to be sent into storage. I have two casts upstairs that I had to wear when I was fighting the hip infection and knee replacement complications. I will happily send them to the dump. I wish they could help someone else, but the are form fitted to me. I never want to see them again! I declare victory! 15999

Re: Just trivia Reply #18 by Nancy R	Posted: January 4, 2010 at 04:22

I forgot to mention this and I think it should be discussed: Will recently had a heart attack and more stents implanted as well as a Pacemaker. I was really concerned that my MRSA history would make him vulnerable. Well, its been about 3 weeks now and he had absolutely no complications. He still has the steri strips from the Pacemaker surgery and everything looks good. Since we share a bed, that speaks volumes. Surely if I was carrying MRSA, he'd be in a high risk situation. We are careful and use common sense. 16000

Re: Just trivia Reply #19 by ladyk	Posted: January 4, 2010 at 17:58

Excellent posts Nancy, well said! Sure enough, ‘hope’ can be challenged like every other last thing on this planet. This topic thread in summary is really about just that – hope. If looked at it in a positive light the scientific study has hope that bringing awareness to the importance of culturing being instituted will save lives as the data supplied provides us with a knowledge base / protective advantage if heeded (which will always have one theory challenging another). For me the further reaching message of the study is providing an accumulative base worthy of necessary alert in order to protect public health. I was an enthusiastic experimenter… specialists, colleagues, and loved ones would agree. I had some very interesting consultations along the way. Dealt with the best, and the worst! Some suggestions I’ve come across frankly scare the hell out me, and after hours and hours of research I’d not continue to take particulars, some I’d never try! My medicine cabinet also reflected these many attempts at trying to feel better. It doesn’t matter who or what you are, when we hear the saying “health is everything” without it we have nothing, I believe this to be true as the impact of serious illness touches ‘every’ aspect of our lives. If we could pick and choose our fate, I know of no one who would choose what we have gone through, and since it is in the past there’s no going back. But we all certainly have choice in the present in doing what it takes to try and feel better. Ya play the best hand you're dealt, sometimes we surpass the odds and hope is born for others. For me, there’s nothing worse than seeing suffering. This past summer I was up to six vigorous laps every morning – and again in the evening, in addition to my often times unreasonable days activity. I was feeling so energized and stuck to my regimen faithfully. I don’t have to reiterate how far my loss of health took me down, as you know the bulk of my story. But the achievements don’t stop… they are ever progressive. As one goal is met, another is set. We ourselves are ever changing, an example of that is I recently got sick… and I have to admit the very summer regimen I was following had been slowly altering as life’s stresses and communicables come and go. Yet I was still able to control and limit symptoms at a tolerable level without clinical intervention. I’d have to agree it is a pain to be proactive taking this measure and that even just to a reasonable degree, but MRSA is far from the only threat out there. So when I weigh the odds that were against me from where I was - to where I am health wise today... proactive measures attempting optimal health (reasonably age related) is one thing I’m not ready to stop hoping and striving for. So yes it seems to me this topic IS about hope. Great clearing of past snags and reminders, freeing up the present and future with hopes and dreams. Glad to hear Will’s retired too! Hugs 16003

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